Inside the Mind of the Mind Hunter: an Interview With Legendary Fbi Agent John Douglas

You are well known for your exceptional career incriminal profiling made vast advancements. Can you
criminal profiling. Please tell our readers about yourdescribe your position as an FBI profiler and your role
background and how you became a famous FBIin implementing the expansion of this field?
profiler.In 1977, when I was transferred to the FBI Academy
As a child I watched a popular television show calledas a criminal psychology instructor, the criminal profiler
The FBI starring Efrem Zimbalist Jr. who played theposition did not exist. After first conducting the
part of Inspector Erskine. This show was on televisionresearch and then passing on what I learned in
for 9 years (1965–74) and had 240 episodes basedclasses, we began to receive cases for analysis.
on the work of the Inspector Erskine, who was allStarting in 1981 I began creating a criminal profiling
business. He didn’t laugh, didn’t love, andprogram within the FBI’s Behavioral Science Unit.
didn’t play. He worked every type of case andDuring the first year we received approximately 54
flew in a private jet to wherever the action was. Incases and every subsequent year the caseload
truth, this position was non-existent. A FBI agent was,expanded. By the time I retired from the FBI in 1995,
and still is, assigned to 1 of 59 field offices andwe were analyzing over 1,000 cases a year. When I
generally remains in that office unless transferred. Littleretired I had 43 employees in my unit. Only 12 of those
did I know in 1970 when I joined the FBI, that one day Iemployees profiled, so it was very stressful for all of
would actually create a position within the FBI basedus. We had to deal with life and death situations with
on Inspector Erskine that would have me travelingvery short deadlines.
throughout the United States and abroad providingEven today, there are many people who think the FBI
on-site consultations in the form of crime analysis andonly profiles serial murder cases. In reality, the majority
criminal profiling.of cases are single homicides, and every type of
As a young FBI agent I enjoyed investigations thatviolent crime has been researched and analyzed by
included interpersonal violence, cases where theprofilers.
subjects were attempting to avoid prosecution orProfiling is not the only investigative tool available. For
confinement, and cases where the subjects wereexample, there are some cases where profiling an
fugitives from justice. While the investigations andunknown offender would not be suitable because of
arrests were fun, I was really interested in learningthe high risk-level of the victim. What could possibly still
something about who they were and why theybe provided are proactive techniques, research-based
perpetrated their crimes, particularly violent crimes,probable cause for search warrants, interview and
against innocent people.interrogation techniques, prosecution and defense
Along the way I obtained graduate degrees incounseling, and possibly expert testimony.
educational psychology, guidance and counseling, andCriminal profiling is a rough line of work. Please
adult education. I enrolled in many abnormal and clinicaldescribe some of the more difficult aspects of the job.
psychology courses, but while I found the classesThe very nature of profiling violent crimes makes for a
interesting, they never really addressed the question ofhighly stressful job. One must be able to identify with
motive. Perhaps because the professors teachingboth the subject and victim in order to answer the
those courses had little, if any, experience with theinvestigative formula of why + how = who.
criminal element.It has been my experience that if a profiler uses the
In 1977 when I was promoted and transferred to thedefense mechanism of “isolation of affect” they
Behavioral Science Unit at the FBI Academy, I hoped Iwill not be successful. When I train profilers I tell them
would learn more about the motives behind criminalthey must walk in the shoes of both the subject and
behavior. The students (law enforcement officersvictim. You have to experience the feelings and
enrolled in the criminal psychology classes taught at theemotions of both.
FBI Academy) and I found the classes entertaining andThere is danger in this technique. In 1983 I nearly died in
sometimes humorous, and the instructors received theSeattle, Washington, while working on the Green River
highest praises each semester from their students.murder case. I was found in my hotel room in a coma
Yet, I still felt there was something missing. None ofcaused by a body temperature btween 104 and 107
these instructors had actually gone into prisons anddegrees. After 5 days in a coma I woke up and found
personally asked violent offenders about the specificsmyself paralyzed on my left side. I had viral encephalitis
of their crimes. I wanted to know about pre-offenseand doctors attributed my weakened immune system
behavior, victim selection, the offender’s personalto the amount of stress I was under. I was later
background, their motivation, their post offensetreated for post-traumatic stress disorder.
behavior, and how they were identified and apply thatPlease describe the most fascinating case of which
information to present-day cases.you have been a part.
By the early 1980s, another colleague and I received aThere have been many interesting and personally
federal grant to conduct research on serial murderers.rewarding cases in my career. Most recently I was
It seemed obvious to me that to learn from theable to interview Dennis Rader, the “BTK
“experts,” it is necessary to speak with them.Strangler” whose murders resurfaced after 30
My personal mantra in all of my books has alwaysyears. I did the original profile in 1979 and later updated
been the following:it with my colleagues. I briefly wrote and profiled the
“To understand the artist, look at the art work.”BTK Strangler in my book Obsession. When I
“Behavior reflects personality.”interviewed Rader he told me he read Obsession and
“The crime is a reflection of the offender.”personally critiqued my analysis. He said my analysis
The above seemed so obvious that I was surprisedwas very good, but his identification, arrest, and
and somewhat amused when some people andconviction were not attributed to it. In August 2007,
organizations began praising this enlightenment into theJossey-Bass will be publishing my book on the BTK
criminal mind. However, not everyone praised myand during the 2007 ACFEI National Conference I will
ideas. Individuals in mental health, probation and parole,be presenting this case along with many others.
and corrections did not like what I was advocating. InWhat else can be learned from your seminars with
sum, all I said was that anyone in such positions ofACFEI?
responsibility must not base their findings andProfiling, in the right hands and with good training, can
conclusions on an offender’s self-reporting. Thebe a viable investigative tool. Those attending the
interview is only one piece of the puzzle. The criminalseminar will have a better appreciation and
case, which includes analyzing the complete crimeunderstanding of the overall profiling process. Criminal
scene and autopsy photos (in the case of a homicide);profiling is not accurately portrayed in the movies and
the autopsy protocol; and law enforcement preliminaryon television. Attendees will learn the process of
reports must all be reviewed, and how the offenderscriminal profiling, and I will demonstrate that criminal
were apprehended must be determined. Relying oninvestigative analysis is very similar to a physician’s
self-reporting alone is a disservice to the criminal justiceact of diagnosing a patient with an unknown illness or
system and threatens those who want to live anddisease. Both the medical doctor and criminal profiler
work in a safe community.can be wrong at times. We are only as good as the
A few years ago on a book tour in New Zealand, Iinformation provided to us for analysis. Unfortunately,
spoke before a group of psychologists andnot every case investigated is a perfect one, but it is
psychiatrists at their institution for the criminally insane.important to recognize the imperfections and consider
Before I began my lecture I could tell by their bodythem in the overall analysis.
language that they had a problem with me. Apparently,ACFEI is made up of members from a wide array of
they had read some of my books where I criticizedforensic backgrounds. How does your presentation
making evaluations of an inmate without ever lookingrelate to all attendees’ professions?
at the facts of the case. Their response to me wasIn the past I’ve spoken to college students,
that by looking at the crime scene photos or readingphysicians, lawyers, school teachers, nurses, stock
preliminary police reports they would unfairly pre-judgebrokers, sales personnel, and many other persons
the patient/inmate. I responded by saying that if youfrom a variety of occupations. At the very least the
don’t take time to look at those types of caseaudience will be entertained in a forensic area with
information then they, as mental health professionals,which most are not intimately familiar. Others will find
would have no idea to whom they were talking. I toldthat the seminar will have direct application to their
them they cannot and should not rely on self-reportingforensic specialty. I hope that everyone attending the
alone because the bad guys lie. They may not haveseminar will take the information provided, digest it, and
liked what I said, but that is the truth based on my ownthen apply it, not only to their work, but also to their
experiences.lives.
During the span of your career, the progression of